steve greene who has that chain of craft stores employs tens of thousands of people they might shut that chain of stores down because of what they are dealing with. >> bill: the chicken thing? >> they are doing okay. look, i think the better way of looking at this maybe, bill, is we were never promised a rose garden. if you are a traditional just catholic even a traditional muslim. your holly book does not tell you that you are going to have an easy time of it being a faithful person. we are all flawed. as christians we believe we are all sinners, we fall down every day and try to get ourselves back up. we do believe there is san ideal. even though sometimes we can't live up to it it's up to us as christians to spread the good word. to neighbors, to friends, to be as faithful as we can. >> bill: that's a nice theory. it ain't happening. >> not a theory we are not doing that to the extent we need to so the society is becoming more secular. >> bill: there is no national leader in this country. billy graham is in his 90's. he is off the stage. all right? there is nobody who can really galva